tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post8945295913265687873..comments2023-05-08T04:26:41.949-04:00Comments on My Little Po-Mo: Latin Latin Madoka More Latin (Puella Magi Madoka Magica)Froborrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08782366056731381450noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-30853741467573339692014-01-25T10:23:48.677-05:002014-01-25T10:23:48.677-05:00>>but the fact that they are egg shaped and ...>>but the fact that they are egg shaped and the girls feel pain<br /><br />not going to say anything about how grief seeds are clearly needle shaped?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-77564272379999282672014-01-02T13:16:46.776-05:002014-01-02T13:16:46.776-05:00I was bringing up the Japanese crowd more than the...I was bringing up the Japanese crowd more than the western as it was more relevant to the Japanese crowd in the case of Evangelion.<br /><br />From what I can gather, moe is typically only outright sexualized when it's an undertone. I've noticed that shows that are quite heavy on moe, i.e. in the slice of life genre, actually tend to be less sexualized in their use of moe than, say, a Harem with only one moeblob. Even when the sexualized undertones are present in those shows, there's often a slight subtlety and a sense of humor to their use. They're rarely blatant about it, and because of that, regardless of whether you perceive it to be sexualized or not, you can find a different appeal in it being amusing and/or cute for being cute. I think KyoAni did some justice to moe last year. I mean, Tamako Market was simultaneously as moe and as innocent as you can get, Free! had them sexualizing males with moe traits more than they ever have females and Kyoukai no Kanata, despite the odd moment of very faint sexualization that was purely for the sake of humor, mostly used moe traits in its co-lead in order to establish her weaknesses for the sake of character exposition and development.<br /><br />Rabid fans will be rabid fans, and rabid fans will have negative impacts often regardless of what they advocate. While specific incidents may point directly to moe, it's not relatively constant or outright harmful in its sheer existence. It's obviously a broad issue, and, in a general sense, it can stem from any kind of disgusting offensive attitude, or just a purely unhealthy obsession.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15073421859409645848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-60574123032392833322014-01-02T05:47:12.558-05:002014-01-02T05:47:12.558-05:00No idea exists in a vacuum; concepts and construct...No idea exists in a vacuum; concepts and constructs exist solely in the minds and cultures that create them. Thus, there is no "pure" moe concept distinct from the moe culture/fandom; it exists only as expressed through that culture, which as you note contains more than its share of creeps. (Though I would strongly disagree that it's specifically the Japanese otaku crowd, the attitudes appear to be quite prominent in American anime fandom as well.)<br /><br />It's also quite obvious that a lot of moe shows/characters are deliberately positioned to be sexualized (panty shots, fetish outfits, extensive use of Male Gaze in the cinematography, etc.).<br /><br />Between what seems to be a fairly clear intent to cater to fetishistic viewing and the ugly elements in the fandom, moe doesn't come out looking very innocent.<br /><br />Not to mention, idealizing innocence, especially (as moe generally does), idealizing it as a specifically feminine trait, can easily slide into dangerous misogynistic attitudes such as the Madonna/whore complex. Consider the infamous death threats toward Aya Hirano for daring to play moe characters while having a sex life, or the cult-like atmosphere of draconian behavioral limits surrounding groups like AKB48. Regardless of intent, moe culture has had serious negative impacts on the lives of real people.Froborrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08782366056731381450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-30883560423630205302014-01-02T00:05:23.539-05:002014-01-02T00:05:23.539-05:00Brilliant review, however, I think your concept of...Brilliant review, however, I think your concept of moe is extremely one-sided. Moe, when you get down to it, really isn't a solid one dimensional purely evil concept revolving entirely around sexist fetishizing. Moe could mean a whole number of things to a whole number of people, but when you strip the concept down to its bare bones, its really nothing more than cute girls, cute in a childlike way, and it appeals to both men and women in different ways as a cute childlike charm does. To nail it down and call it pure fetishizing is to say that the only appeal that can be drawn from cutesy female characters is fetish fuel, and you should damn well know that isn't true. When I watch something like K-ON!, I'm not concerned with the lack of a meaningful plot to the point I try to draw as many negative things as I can from it to generalise that the appeal is purely fetish related. What I see is genuine charm and appeal in the visuals, in the soundtrack, in the simple slice of life formula, in the amusing character interactions and in the overall atmosphere it creates. While some people may be bored by that, it's something that makes a lot of people feel warm and fuzzy, it makes a lot of people love it for its pure innocence on the surface. It can only be interpreted negatively and fetishized through cynicism.<br /><br />However, I won't deny that the concept of moe in itself most certainly draws in a large crowd of shut-ins who fetishize it, and looking at that crowd alone and not moe in itself, your point still remains valid. While not being as direct, broad or unrestrained as Evangelion, it gets across those same ideas about the ulterior motives, sexual frustration and self serving values present in the Japanese Otaku crowd. Both of them are brilliant works, but I'd honestly put Madoka above Evangelion for its emotional impact and Studio SHAFT charm.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15073421859409645848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-58681066005408662452014-01-01T23:59:47.922-05:002014-01-01T23:59:47.922-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15073421859409645848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-17320806194972409742013-12-22T11:01:51.461-05:002013-12-22T11:01:51.461-05:00I understand that is the dictionary definition, ye...I understand that is the dictionary definition, yes, but if you look at moe fandom (both Japanese and American), especially a few years ago right before Madoka first came out, another conception emerges of what traits make a character moe.Froborrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08782366056731381450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-72418190658905985492013-12-22T04:21:21.488-05:002013-12-22T04:21:21.488-05:00As an Asian, I see your definition of Moe quite di...As an Asian, I see your definition of Moe quite different from us.<br />The core concept of moe for me is cuteness/kawaii, fluffy or so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-51299107560954650602013-09-03T19:27:52.963-04:002013-09-03T19:27:52.963-04:00I assumed that it was well within Kyubey's pow...I assumed that it was well within Kyubey's power (or at least the power his people could bring to bear if that was the solution they wanted) to kill the newly formed witches if he wanted to--he just doesn't want to. The witches are useful in and of themselves, and anyways Madoka seems to be saving them the moment BEFORE he would be able to harm them--his much different relationship with the girls (most notably Homura, who has the most reason to distrust him) in the new universe suggests to me that his new business model involves keeping them alive as long as possible and profit off the margins of their ups and downs. Plus the fact that these unexplained demons show up to fight the girls as soon as there stops being witches to fight them seems way too convenient.<br /><br />Removing witches means he has to spend more effort and contract more children to achieve the same result, and since he was probably already doing as much as he could that means less entropy gets reversed. Hell, he practically states outright that he'd rather just make witches but when he tried it didn't work. Madoka's "strategy" was technically possible in the first universe but made about as much sense as burning half your paycheck for warmth--a misuse of resources too severe to even pass off as an honest mistake.Brickmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205279994171209511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-46444104332946258922013-09-03T17:41:36.575-04:002013-09-03T17:41:36.575-04:00To clarify: Since Kyubey isn't aware that the ...To clarify: Since Kyubey isn't aware that the possibility exists to do what Madoka does, he cannot be said to choose between his strategy and Madoka's strategy. Rather, his choice is between his strategy and doing nothing.Froborrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08782366056731381450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-38329539867002100012013-09-03T16:23:41.399-04:002013-09-03T16:23:41.399-04:00Kyubey wants things; therefore he is lying when he...Kyubey wants things; therefore he is lying when he says that he has no emotions.<br /><br />Also note, the choice Kyubey is making is not between Madoka's solution and his own; the choice he is making is between letting the universe die and torturing children. From that perspective, I would argue that utilitarianism *does* require one to make the wrong choice, because the opportunity cost of the universe ending is infinite, and therefore any finite amount of suffering to avert it, no matter how large, is still an increase in net utility. Once again, I don't see how any utilitarian would have a problem with Omelas.Froborrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08782366056731381450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-39347814548251072012013-09-03T16:15:47.199-04:002013-09-03T16:15:47.199-04:00Seconding the recommendation to read Kahnemann, it...Seconding the recommendation to read Kahnemann, it's good stuff. I mention it in the book, actually, when discussing Pinkie Pie's dual nature.Froborrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08782366056731381450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-39961938053382745032013-09-03T08:26:29.139-04:002013-09-03T08:26:29.139-04:00I'll agree that last bit about humans being ba...I'll agree that last bit about humans being bad at judging probabilities (reading a wonderful book about heuristics right now, "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman if you're interested) and scale. And it's because we tend to be kind of bad at judging for others (and information problems) that utilitarians, particularly Mill, tended to advocate loser restrictions and kind of just let people do their own thing unless causing harm to others (Mill's harm principle). Granted, I probably have a wider definition of harm than Mill, so I'll admit I'm not purely a Mill-type utilitarian anyways. He's just my reference point.<br /><br />But, from my perspective, everything else is basically just setting up a strawman-utilitarian and then criticizing it. Considering that, then, I doubt this is an argument we'd be able to resolve XD. WhammyAnalysishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18437745591144835702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-50157873077593286712013-09-02T23:23:11.619-04:002013-09-02T23:23:11.619-04:00I think all that stuff isn't really utilitaria...I think all that stuff isn't really utilitarianism at all--it's the result the result of Mill's internal censor saying "Wait a second, that all would mean I'd advocate doing some things that make me extremely uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure that's not what I believe and it's not what I want to believe, so clearly I missed a step somewhere". And then he backs himself up a few paces away from pure utilitarianism to a point where he's actually comfortable standing.<br /><br />Possibly barring some sociopaths, human beings are just plain not capable of pure utilitarianism outside of hypotheticals. Which is just as well since we're so bad at intuitively judging probabilities and scale that if we actually tried we'd just make even more spectacular messes.Brickmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205279994171209511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-81428382857052110042013-09-01T14:59:52.037-04:002013-09-01T14:59:52.037-04:00One minor note: the separation of sympathy and emp...One minor note: the separation of sympathy and empathy into two separate things is a relatively more recent thing. "Sympathy", as used in Mill's writings and others like David Hume and Adam Smith was a combination of both concepts and is a reference to our general ability to recognize and discover the feelings of others and to be motivated by that.<br /><br />Anyway, like I said, I'm willing to grant that a utilitarian may accept Kyuubey's system (still would argue that Madoka's system is the preferable one though). But, from a utilitarian perspective, Kyuubey's admitting he "has no emotions" (and therefore, I would assume, no sense of sympathy or empathy) would be a sign that his "hedonistic calculator" (so to speak) is broken. It's not that utilitarians don't care about individual well-being and give it no value, it's that an individual's well-being has to be weighed against others. Therefore, by his inability to place value on individual's well-being, their is no assurance that Kyuubey would actually be able to come up with the best system that maximizes the lifespan of the universe while minimizing the cost of individual suffering.WhammyAnalysishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18437745591144835702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-62799558472211111622013-09-01T01:09:35.349-04:002013-09-01T01:09:35.349-04:00I'd assumed Kyubey's off-ness was just clu...I'd assumed Kyubey's off-ness was just clumsiness on the writers' or animators' parts.nullhypothesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11784779286499862559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-80951776405724029132013-08-30T22:03:15.145-04:002013-08-30T22:03:15.145-04:00But listen to yourself: you're arguing that we...But listen to yourself: you're arguing that we should care about people in the abstract because it leads to positive results overall--but that says nothing about the isolated particular case where you can achieve a net global increase in utility at the cost of a drastic reduction in utility for a particular person. (No utilitarian would walk away from Omelas.)<br /><br />Kyubey cares about people the same way you're talking about--in the abstract. Humans mean nothing to him because there's a universe full of other creatures to save; he only cares about individuals insofar as that serves the larger picture. But if the basis of morality is empathy (not sympathy, btw, they're entirely separate things), then it's really the other way around: the moral thing to do is care about individual people, and then extend out from there.<br /><br />And I believe we've discussed this before, but I think Mill's favoring of certain pleasures over others is purely arbitrary and self-serving--he's just picking the things he likes with no real basis for doing so.Froborrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08782366056731381450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-26235345531080408862013-08-30T21:22:37.825-04:002013-08-30T21:22:37.825-04:00Wonderful article, but I have to disagree with you...Wonderful article, but I have to disagree with your characterization of utilitarianism (*is a utilitarian*).<br /><br />Utilitarians, particularly those of the John Stuart Mill tradition, do hold that sympathy has an important role in ethics. In JSM's case, the importance of sympathy is it's role as a motivator in social relations. By feeling what others feel, we can begin to adopt their ends as our own, and eventually it encourages mutual cooperation over conflict. Thus, for Mill-style utilitarians at least, utilitarianism should be encouraging sympathy and care so that society is motivated to restructure itself into a more beneficial system.<br /><br />Also in a qualitative form of utilitarianism (again, Mill), not all utility is equal. In particular, John Stuart Mill places emphasis on pleasures that encourage the use of our mental and emotional faculties (art, music, literature, philosophy, theatre, friendship etc.). Because of this, qualitative utilitarians would emphasize the need to ensure that whatever system is in place attempts to maximize such things. <br /><br />Now, granted, if there was absolutely no other option a Kyuubey-like system may still be supported since it's an issue of life and death. Utilitarians, however, wouldn't approach it in that "cold, deceptive, calculating" manner that Kyuubey did and completely disregard the emotional turmoils of magical girls. Since I'm assuming both systems are capable of holding off the heat death thing, if given the option between the original system, which is purposefully inflicting pain to gain more efficiency, or Madoka's system, which is less efficient but tries to minimize the pain, then Madoka's system is preferable.WhammyAnalysishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18437745591144835702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-52501739156727506352013-08-30T15:34:43.543-04:002013-08-30T15:34:43.543-04:00The plan is for Wednesday to always be bigger than...The plan is for Wednesday to always be bigger than the other Thoughts of the Day. It helps prevent burnout by giving me an outlet to talk about ANYTHING OTHER THAN EFFING PONIES. (Which I love, but, gah. I've been at this almost a year now.)<br /><br />It helps quite a bit that this particular post is adapted from a scripted presentation, so all I had to do was reformat and make a few edits.Froborrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08782366056731381450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-51173000992049836552013-08-30T15:32:21.353-04:002013-08-30T15:32:21.353-04:00Was that both parts, or just part one? Because par...Was that both parts, or just part one? Because part one is readily available--it's part two that's ridiculously hard to find translated.Froborrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08782366056731381450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-18777506280463102402013-08-30T07:39:04.475-04:002013-08-30T07:39:04.475-04:00Maybe it's because I haven't watched many ...Maybe it's because I haven't watched many magical girl series in the past, but for me Kyubey radiated an aura of wrongness right from the start and Homura reminded me of Rika from Higurashi (funny how accurate that gut feeling was--then again it also led me to assume Mami was also evil right up until episode 3). So even without spoilers I probably would have been expecting the other shoe to drop. Plus, you know, eldritch abomination monsters of the week, every week.Brickmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05205279994171209511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-17834342606071034612013-08-30T03:20:48.584-04:002013-08-30T03:20:48.584-04:00Hmm, so you are preventing burnout by posting huge...Hmm, so you are preventing burnout by posting huge posts like this for thoughts of the day? I'm not sure how that works..Jason Millerhttp://example.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-28235558148233507602013-08-30T03:19:54.265-04:002013-08-30T03:19:54.265-04:00On a Lufthansa flight, I saw someone reading the G...On a Lufthansa flight, I saw someone reading the Goethe with German on left-page, English on right.Jason Millerhttp://example.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-85023265143027479492013-08-30T02:06:41.399-04:002013-08-30T02:06:41.399-04:00About a month ago I convinced a friend of mine to ...About a month ago I convinced a friend of mine to watch Madoka, telling her that it was "as if Neil Gaiman got depressed and wrote a Sailor Moon/Faust crossover fic".<br /><br />Two weeks later, she told me she had finished the series (twice, and the second time was better than the first), but was angry at me for not letting her know how... emotionally intense the series was.ThatGuynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-56464141084969440672013-08-29T23:57:32.352-04:002013-08-29T23:57:32.352-04:00I remember how all the marketing made this look li...I remember how all the marketing made this look like just another magical girl series, and everyone was asking, "Has Urobochi finally made something friendly?" And indeed it looked that way 'til episode 3.<br /><br />It was a sucker punch, not only subverting the genre but luring the viewer in to smack them with how horrible they are for watching this kind of thing.nullhypothesishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11784779286499862559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5106243389695628804.post-26543565158663525692013-08-28T23:44:05.817-04:002013-08-28T23:44:05.817-04:00The more I hear about this series, the more certai...The more I hear about this series, the more certain I become that a) I need to see it, and b) I won't be able to get through it. Can't wait to hear more!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01543133662906033247noreply@blogger.com